Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! Damn, sorry to hear this especially since I own the same bike! Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. So despite being an engineer the non-linear noisy nature of the reporting makes it very difficult to plan rides and I almost always finish the last few km without assistance for bigger rides. Yeah but who needs all that power? Couldn't agree more. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. My first thoughts are that the disengagement part of the motor that allows it to pedal freely after 20 has already broken. This adjustment has the biggest impact on the motors performance and your total range. The charge bars are a major issues though on the 8000, after a bit of use the battery becomes extremely unpredictable. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. You can improve efficiency by limiting the maximum torque, though it is still possible to get maximum power out of the motor by pedalling at a higher cadence, so you wont necessarily get more range by limiting torque. They could have gone "yeah the rattling sucks but we hope you appreciate the motor nonetheless" but instead they composed this pure poetry. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. It doesn't feel good. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. Rattling noise, you've seen (or heard) any of the Semenuk RAW100 videos? Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. And more power requires more juice. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. It's really, really quite quiet. My local rides average 30-35km with just under 1km of climb. And that's with the big heavy battery too. Also the bikes will be heavy as f*ck with an 820Wh battery. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. TSB 156 addresses a reported issue where the crank preload end cap can loosen and fall off, eventually causing the pedal cranks to become detached from the bottom-bracket spindle. The biggest change has been with Trail mode, which now gives you access to the full 85Nm of torque if youre pedalling hard enough. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Alex is also a dedicated eMTB rider, and still dabbles in racing of a sort, doing his best to top the Strava leaderboard on the steepest, gnarliest and twistiest trails the Tweed Valley has to offer just for fun, of course. What ever happened to grit?!?! There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? You can't imagine what kind of thought must have gone behind that response? This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. Alex moved to Morzine in the French Alps at 19 to pursue a career as a bike bum and clocked up an enormous amount of riding. - High quality display & controller Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. Perfect? Is this a review for ants? Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. "Unquestionably, Shimano has the cleanest and sleekest display integration on the market". You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. Probably more than some rattle. I have ridden ebikes great fun,addictive, you gain some things , but lose some things as well, like all bikes a compromise. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. Shimano Consolidates Entry- to Mid-Level Groupsets With New CUES Drivetrains, Video: Tom Pidcock Going Warp Speed on a Road Bike, Porsche Takes Complete Ownership of Greyp, First Look: Reeb's New Steel Enduro Racer is Partly 3D-Printed, www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wanneroo/bicycle-parts-and-accessories/men-s-petrol-bike-mountain-bike-/1259285475, www.cyclevolta.com/story/ebike-components/hold-up-shimanos-new-emtb-motor, www.avdweb.nl/solar-bike/solarbike/maxun-solar-bike. Thanks! Side-by-side, the EP8 motor is slimmer around the belly and so offers a skerrick more ground clearance. I chose this bike because it has the EP8 and from research, seems to be the most reliable platform out there, assuming it's as reliable as the E8000. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. I've had a go on ebikes and think they're fantastic and good fun. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? An e-Mtb allows me to ride farther, and more often and smile from beginning to end, not just the downhill sections! Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. - Can we have remaining battery displayed as a percentage please? Already have an account with us? I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. - Lightweight and small form factor Durability and ease of maintenence is far more important than power in my world. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. They deemed it a warranty and the motor has failed. Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Maximum Torque This allows you to limit the maximum torque, with 10 levels of adjustment from 20 Nm to 85 Nm. So that would include rocks, hops, trackstands but also sudden boosts from a standstill. But even then it is still quieter than my saddle bag bouncing around. If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. I also have Commencal 2021 meta power sx. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. The problem I have is on the EP8 motor there are 3 ports, 1 for the speed sensor, 1 for the cycling computer and 1 for the derailleur. If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. Limiting the maximum torque is something youll notice more at low cadences in high-load applications rather than general trail riding. Here youll find three sliding scales for each of the three assist modes (thats Eco, Trail and Boost). How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? There are 10 levels of adjustment, from Eco to Powerful. I like to see a dynamo recharging system when the bike starts to coast downhill. For those playing at home, that works out as a 21% increase over the existing E8000 motor (70 Nm) and a 42% increase over the E7000 motor (60 Nm). I'd do way more on a big day. Climbs really well and descends like a beast. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . 1. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. Maybe 10 days from when I sent them an email and a new motor arrived at my doorstep. I find the author of this article is overly picky. it's been quite awhile and still no fix . If you are disabled and need a motor on your bike in order to ride, I understand. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. Specialized is close to this. According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Going the right direction in weight reduction. For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. I can only hear any motor rattling when I am doing really gnarly rocky downhill. That would be awesome to do laps on. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. Plus integration looks like shit on those Nox bikes. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. 2. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. As mentioned earlier, the Bosch motor does feel punchier than Shimano EP8, with noticeably stronger support at lower cadences. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Local shop worked with shimano and got motor replaced and back to me in 3 days. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. The fact that the EP8 motor uses the same mounting points as the old E8000 motor means there are a few bikes out there that were anticipating will be updated with the new motor like the Norco Sight VLT and Range VLT. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. And you can take the motor together with a battery out in matter of seconds. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? 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